Supervisor Derry,
No, that title is not in reference to you. I was asked to pass this along in reference to your question a few weeks ago regarding SBPEA and the County of San Bernardino.
It seems Andrew Lamberto/Linda Haugan/Bob Blough are at it again. Remember that email I sent to you and George that you both ignored regarding PID Chief Virginia Lugo, et al., using C-IV to run all employees to see if they have ever been on a welfare case of any kind? Well sometimes illegal activities backfire.
And this is one such case. You see there is a TAD supervisor who just happens to be very, very, very close to a TAD client, if you know what I mean. That TAD supervisor instructed a subordinate to go into that TAD client’s case and make changes. That’s right. They did not just look at the case; they had changes made to the case on behalf of their very, very, very close “friend.” Well, darnitall if they didn’t get caught. What is poor Linda/Andrew to do when one of their favs gets caught committing a crime?
Well, we know what happens to PID Chief Virginia Lugo when she gets caught committing a crime. Nothing . . . absolutely nothing. But the crime victims get fired.
We cannot have double standards, now can we? So that means since this is a TAD supervisor, we should pretend nothing happened. And that is almost what happened. You see, unlike any subordinate that would have been FIRED!!!, the TAD supervisor was allowed to instead transfer to another office.
But the most interesting part of this whole deal is that this TAD supervisor just also happens to be a member of the Board of Directors of the San Bernardino Public Employees Association. That $50,000 sure did go a long way. If I were you, I’d demand your share since you seem to want to turn a blind eye to Blough’s wrongdoing. You should get paid for it too just like the other four supervisors. I’m sure Bob and Scott will be happy to cut you a check for say . . . $50,000. Or have they already?
Strike 2 for the Chicken in covering-up for his SBPEA Board members. All I can say is that Blough better have a Prince for counsel when the shite hits the fan involving his conflicted Board and the way he has been covering up illegal activity at SBPEA all these years. Come to think about it, it’s at least strike 3 with this same crew being responsible for throwing Sharon out of the union once she got on the Board and uncovered their fund commingling. Maybe the feds should be looking at the SBPEA in$urance $cam and money laundering while they are in town bringing down Arrowhead Credit Union, or would Mikey, Husing, Morris and Leon object to that too? Timmy P., I think it’s about time you explain to ACT why you failed to disclose the conflict you have with your purported client, the SBPEA Chicken?
I am sure that you are funnelling these issues to Supv Derry since he has frequented this blog in the past. However, the way you have treated him during these past few months is not condusive to him wanting to return. I would be surprised if he bothers to take the time.
As to the specifics of this issue, why do you believe Supv. Derry is the responsible party when the BOS has placed that duty squarely on the CAO? It would seem prudent to direct these departmental issues to the CAO, and if one or more Supv. still follows this blog and is interested in the case, then they or the new unit in the CAO’s office can follow-up.
Don’t worry about Neil, being the political animal that he is; he’ll be back. He can’t help himself.
So observer, you are saying that if we’re nice to Neil he’ll do his job? It seems as if you are also saying that “maybe” by directing these issues to that CAO then he or the new joke of a unit under him MIGHT do their jobs and hold a member of the management team to the same standards that line staff are held to?
Also, being one of the BOS that placed duties squarely on the CAO you cannot then argue that now Neil can’t do anything because it’s the CAO’s job ( that the BOS gave him). Ridiculous. How stupid do you think people are?
Jeff,
People are only stupid when they think that controversial antagonistic attitude will get them somewhere in life. The primal law of human nature applies here “People will only go out of their way and take personal ownership of a situation if they have a vested interest in the topic”. Some people transcend this plain of primal human nature and want effect a positive impact to a situation that does not benefit them directly, just because of the type of person they are. Supv Derry started down this path and left the stage after being pelted by tomatoes.
Frankly, I feel sorry for the man even though I do not reside in his district. I thought he represented something special and had a genuine interest in turning this county around.
The limit of liability that Supv Derry has follows: If there is an issue that directly relates to Supv Derry’s district, then his constituents expect him to take ownership of the issue, ensure that it is acted upon, and that the appropriate resolution is put in place. If there is something beyond that which you expect him to take ownership of, then use some common sense in your approach instead of acting like a bully.
Are you stating that these issues that were brought to Supv Derry’s attention have a direct impact to his electorate? From what I have seen, he was a convenient channel, a simpathetic ear, and someone who wanted to make a difference. However, the way he was beat up by this bully pulpit of a forum is not condusive to him wanting to return.
Try using honey instead of vinegar and perhaps you will get support. If all you have left is vinegar, then take it to the watchdog group.
Jeff,
One more thought, are you attempting to state that Supv Derry is not doing his job simply because he elects not to go toe-to-toe with the bullies of this forum?
Do you think people are so stupid to believe that all he has to do is respond to people slinging tomatoes from the cheap seats?
I think people are smarter than you give them credit for. Perhaps you should run for office and earn the right to sit in the hot seat before judging others for their actions.
Well Observer, I will count myself as one of the bullies, fair enough.
However for those paying attention these last couple decades or so, one should also see your method or approach is also ineffect.
When you speak of bullies YOU should really look deep within the elected officials or appointed ones, YOU might truly understand what that word means. OH many are very “politically correct” and phrase things in a nice way just like you, VERY charming.
Unfortunately very phony and just a political cover for the evil that lurks within. I am not speaking specifically of Mr.Derry on this one. I won’t go that far at this time.
President Obama speaks very well, and has excellent salesmanship when talking to an audience.
But we also know how that has help the present state of affairs in this country.
ACU, you are correct in one sense, which is this. Electeds become prima donnas shortly after they are sworn in. The come to expect respect and a degree of decorum when discussing the people’s business. If you ever see official stationary, it includes the letters Hon. representing the honorable. Now I would have reserved that title for members of the bar. I suppose they are in a position to create law at a local level so perhaps Hon is an appropriate term. If you ever are in a position to meet with them, it is considered appropriate to refer to them by their title. People in that position want something. They want the supervisor’s support and assistance. Something you will never obtain if you treat them without honor.
Observer, I was not necessarily supporting the administrators assertion that the things in the post above are all Neil’s fault. I was merely pointing out the flaw in your argument in supporting him. As you can see even Mr. Steve Brow saw through your argument immediately just as I did see his post on separate page same subject here:
“It is standard operating procedure for any authoritive body to delegate their authority to others. That does not relieve the authoritative body from liability, it makes the authoritive body liable for the actions of those they delegate to.
Derry is not relieved of liability because board authority has been delegate to Devereaux. On the contrary, Derry remains liable for each and every action delegated to Devereaux”
I do live in Mr. Derry’s district and I have frankly gone back and forth in my support for him. I did not vote for him. I did not like the dirty campaign he ran against Hansberger nor did I understand why he left the SB City Council with so much more to be done only to take on the larger “County” which he new was in much worse shape. This is one of the questions that I asked him and he did not answer. That was back when he was still campaigning and hadn’t yet won the seat. He did not answer therefore he lost my vote. Now, since he has taken office I do see that he has come out very strong and rightfully so on a lot of things related to the sad State of the County. Some of his editorials outing the County situation have been beautiful but editorials don’t actually have that large of an effect on such wide scale dysfunction.
Bullies? I have seen posts that I am unhappy with but for the most part this blogpen stands/speaks up for those who are too afraid to do so.
Neil is a POLITICIAN by choice. I am not. Also, getting elected doesn’t earn you the right to do anything except represent the people in your district. I don’t always agree with other blogpen members on either their ideas or their presentation but I also wouldn’t classify them as bullies. (Now, without mentioning names and generating a flood of comments there are just plain crazies on here and we know who they are. )
One more thing, as a constituent I can complain to Neil all I want through a variety of channels and I know the difference between Honey and Vinegar. Consider this though observer, when a group of people are bullshited over and over again for years by a small group of people in power, all with the sweet nice sugar topping you could ask for at the end of the day it is still just sugar covered bullshit. I prefer my bullshit laid out in front of me so I know exactly what I’m dealing with and I prefer Vinegar covered bullshit to honey covered arrogance. Keep coming back observer, you do make some great points and you seem to enjoy going toe to toe without getting butt-hurt.
Observer I too would agree. I spent a few months in the Courts before going to the streets. I drove for General Staff officers in the military. I have appeared more than a few times in the Courts before various judges. I do believe in decorum and understand it VERY MUCH, in the proper setting and when it’s official.
I have tried the nice guy approach, it doesn’t work, I have thrown tomatoes, it doesn’t work.
Let me point out that the Sheriff’s Executive Staff, at least the ones I have dealt with have always been respectful and polite, ALWAYS!!!! THAT does not make them COOL people.
However, when all is said and done, and you know what really happened behind the scenes, then you will understand why one might decide to throw tomatoes.
My point is, my experience has been, when someone or a group has an agenda already planned or on course, it really doesn’t matter what you say, nothing will change. If your too “politically correct”, you get walked on that much sooner. If you think otherwise, fine with me.
I also believe that constant “polictical correctness” bores most people. If this website was politically correct as some others are, the readers would fall asleep.
Let’s take the citizens of Bell, if they would have approached that mess down there with “political correctness”, I really believe Rizzo and his crew would still be working, just that simple.
Those folks were upset, brought in truckloads of tomatoes and started throwing them. VERY shortly thereafter, major investigations are launched, people resign and MANY other goverment entities are scrambling to make sure they too are not going to get whacked like the City of Bell.
And it appears that the TRUE start of this scandal was the result of some HONEST cops blowing the whistle on some not so ethical practices.
YES, the County is 20 times the size of Bell. But the problem is this County has had a couple decades to square itself away, at least to the level that corruption would not be so obvious and in so many departments.
On to Mr.Derry.
Mr.Derry is a former Marine. To those of us with military backgrounds, WE know what the warrior spirit is all about and should not be offended by it. Mr.Derry says he has know Sheriff Hoops for at least 10 years. Derry hired Jim Erwin and no doubt knew him long before being elected. Derry spend a number of years as Councilman in San Bernardino. Derry has been around the County and it politics for quite sometime now.
SO that being what it is, I am sure Mr.Derry has heard about plenty of scandals through out this County over time. If Mr.Derry dismissed most of those issues at the time as people “throwing tomatoes”, then Mr.Derry was asleep at the wheel.
If Mr.Derry has been paying close attention for the last decade or so, he as an above average intelligence, “should have known” what would eventually happen across the board.
SO if Mr.Derry was an outsider who just moved into the County and won his seat after a tuff election, I’d be sitting back and simply saying the man needs time to learn about the goings on in the County before he get’s beat up. And that comment goes to many others not just Mr.Derry.
NO I do not expect, nor have I ever expected Mr.Derry to come out into the public forum and throw anyone under the bus to please me or anyone else.
But I won’t be insulted by some of his comments down playing some VERY serious issues. Many of our leaders have NO PROBLEM when they are after you, telling you that, “you should have known” this would happen by everything going on around you.
Observer you keep your approach to dealing with these issues if you like, it’s AMERICA. I’ll keep my wagon full of tomatoes next to me just in case I need one.
If Mr.Derry dislikes me for throwing some at him, he will get over it. If he doesn’t, then he can go toe to toe with me if he wishes. I really don’t think Mr.Derry is interested in seeing any real evidence of corruption to be perfectly honest.
Observor, there is a major flaw in your logic. You state that a Supervisor is liable only for what directly effects the voters of that district. This is abjectly false. A Supervisor is elected by the voters in his district to rule on all issues that effect the entire county. In fact the duty of care that is incumbent on an elected Supervisor is to take no action that will harm the county as a whole, not to hold his own distrtict harmless while the whole county suffers.
In fact, this duty of care not to harm the county is the legitimate limit to the power that Derry thought he would have before he became elected. He simply can not say things that would have a detrimental effect on the county’s image beyond the good that honest disclosure would bring the county. He can not speak carelessly in a way that would make the county liable in a lawsuit. He must support the daily workings of government in a systematic way wihtout upsetting the apple cart in a way that the county desists from functioning. He must, in general, suport the workigs of the employees of the county.
In furtherance of the above, he may agree to delegate his authority to an administrative CAO. In a county as large in population and geography as San Bernardino, he may agree with his colleagues to make certain decissions in his district almost unilaterally, subject to “rubber stamp” review and approval by the rest of the board. And he may similarly “rubber stamp” the decissions of the other supervisors as issues pertain internally to their own districts.
In furtherance of the above principles, he may have to recieve information that is harmful to the county, take action to rectify wrongs, but not be permitted to directly acknowledge the wrongs nor the action he has taken towards rectification.
But none of these principles are absolutes. They are subject to balance and judgement. The very judgement for which the supervisors were elected to make.
Each supervisor has to continually monitor if the systems that they have created work to the benefit of the people of the county. They have to continnually monitor the performance of the CAO on others to whom they have given trust. They have to continually monitor the unilateral decissions of their colleagues to etermine if they can continue to support them.
The people of the County have to rely on the Supervisors to fulfill these functions, but are free to lobby the Supervisors at will. It is they who will decide whether to devilver thier message with honey or with vinegar.
Observor, on this and/or another recent thread, you stated that your observation was that most peole act only according to their own immediate interests. You acknowledged that there were a few who were more alturistic and reacted to the needs of others that were not necessarily in their own immediatel interest. You opined that
San Bernardino County Supervisor Neil Derry was one of these altruistic people. You opined that he learned that he did not have the power to do what he had intended, became weary of people “throwing tomatoes” at him, and so retreated to severing as a supervisor more in line with his own self interest.
Therefore, you suggested to the administrator that she confine her own interests to narrowly defined pleas to the the system, and then search out the specific functionaries within that system that could further her needs.
There are problems with your logic.
First, you recognize that there are greater altruistic principles of government that transcend self interest. In fact, it is these princlples that make Republican government–one dignitary standing in to safeguard the interests of many others–possible. You opine that Derry once operated under these principles but has abondoned them for the purposes of self interest.
You state that Derry has moved from a place of higher principle to lower principle. That changes Derry, not the principles. In fact, for these principles to be altruistic, they must transcend Derry and exist with or without Derry.
If these principles are altruistic, than others must also be able to grasp them with or without Derry. And in fact, if Derry ceases to grasp them, then those adhering to those principles must view the principles to be the same, and Derry to have fallen away.
Yet your advise is for others to adhere not to principle, but to Derry’s fallenness. To themselves abondon altruistic principles, define only what is in their own narrow self interest, apply honey, and then lick it.
The problem is, if a Supervisor abondons the altruistic principles that make Republican government possible and falls to consider his own self interest, the average citizen will have no chance to supply enough honey to make the Supervisor believe that his help is in his own best interest.
The big donor will be able to supply more honey. The big developer will be able to create a more alluring partnership. Those who hang on to those in power will be more willing to provide more flattery and sex. The local prosecutor will have more power to corrupt by holding back acting on what he knows about this fallenness. The AG, or more likely, the FBI will have to come in to clean house again. The voters will look to new reformers with altruistic principles.
The process will repeat again, and again, and again.
Jeff, Your points are well presented and understandable. ACU and Steve, your points twist my words and as a result are grossly incorrect. There is no point in me attempting to address any of those statements. So the easiest approach is for me to re-center on my primary point of this discussion.
Neil Derry could have been an ally to this blogpen and a somewhat symbiotic relationship could have developed to the benefit of the 19000 county employees and many more constituent stakeholders who are interested in seeing the County pull itself out of the muck and become a place where most people would be proud of. Derry could have used this inside information to help further his desires to create the ethics commission, which we all know if far overdue. Derry could have been like the Undercover Boss and discover first hand where organizational problems exist prior to him becoming the Chair. Derry could have taken on issues that are outside his sphere of influence, using them to continue his quest for ethical government. If he never returns, then WE have lost a potential ally. I say WE because I am a regular reader, even though I rarely contribute and believe that WE need allies on the inside in a position of influence.
I believe Jim decided to take the high road with his blogpen as I have yet to see any interested party being attacked as I have personally witnessed on this blogpen. Let this be a lesson to others who wish to voice an opinion contrary to the mainstream thought of this blogpen.
I understand that Sharon could care less if Derry ever returns because he did not live up to her expectations on one or more topics. She has said so more than once. I suspect she feels the same way about my observations. Personally, I would like to see Derry stay engaged on these issues. His presence, past and hopefully future, lends credibility to what I believe to be someone with a foundation of principled centered leadership.
I am not asking or expecting Sharon, anyone on this blogpen or others to pull their punches. On the contrary, it is what makes this blog worth visiting on a regular basis. I am also not expecting or asking anyone to curtail their freedom of speech. I am only suggesting that you consider not attacking your potential allies. As an ally to the blogpen, Supervisor Derry is more likely to do some good for the County than he is likely to do the County harm. I suspect he is still interested in helping and would welcome the opportunity to have a civilized discussion on the issues, even if he cannot (yet) promise the results that the blogpen would like to see.
I highly recommend not ambushing him with ten unrelated issues when he is attempting to work with you to help further define the primary issue at hand. Instead, it would have been just as easy to state that there are a few other issues that you would like to discuss with him and present them in priority order.
Observer I understand your point, it is sometimes difficult to fully understand what one might be trying to get across in a posting since one cannot see the person face to face or hear their voice. It is what it is.
I take your message as basically be nice and keep Mr.Derry as a ally. Point taken.
I will again for the record say that before my most recent comments towards Mr.Derry I have been a supporter. I apologized openly on this blog for lumping him in with the others. YOU might not have read that since it was sometime ago.
If Mr.Derry was REALLY interested in seeking ANYONE out who might be able to point to some issues to assist him in his quest for ethics, he knew LONG AGO on who he could talk to and get information. It is clear that did not happen other than a case or two involving the administrator and Ms.Ristow. TO my knowledge.
You mention Mr.Erwin as taking the high road on his website. Interesting I have seen a few postings where folks got attacked, but YES it is a more politcally correct website than this one.But I don’t think Mike Ramos will agree with you on that.
BUT if you look close at that website, what DON’T you see there? PLAIN as the nose on your face if you have paid attention?I won’t say what that is at this time until you comment.
All Mr.Derry has to do is compare the public/press scrutiny of the Colonies, who has not been prosecuted in a similiar manner, then compare that to the Ivory Webb case, Bill Postmus recent under the influence case,then the POST scandal with a few other small ones added into the mix, IT SHOULD be obvious what is going on around the County. IT IS NOT difficult to see even for an outsider.
Did you see the article in the Sun and Daily Press on the off duty Barstow cop who was arrested for using racial slurs during a fight. He was arrested by SBSD. More than a couple stories in each paper about that. They give the guys name and age.
Does that raise ANY red flags to you on anything that has been discussed here? Interesting that reporter Joe Nelson is one of writers of the story.
I have all kinds of interesting documents in my possession if Mr.Derry REALLY wants evidence to prove a pattern of conduct. IT would involve both the DA and the Sheriff. EVIDENCE, not my word against another party.
My very specific issue with Mr.Derry was when he came onto this blog and said the POST scandal was under Penrod’s watch. Mr.Derry must have forgot that it was Hoops who told everyone the case had been submitted to the DA under his watch.
Mr.Derry further attempts to explain away ALL the stories and postings for the last couple of years on this website about SBSD,that he (Mr.Derry)supports Hoops because he has always found him respectful and shows dignity to others and supports the County without question.
What in the hell does that have to do with the very specific issues of the many issues brought forth here?
My perception of that answer is Mr.Derry is simply trying to discount everything that has been said about Hoops based on his personal observations. OKAY!!!
Those comments are as foolish as a parent coming into a police station to pick up their child and tells the cops, “my children would not do what you alledge, I know my kids”.”They get good grades in school and are on the honor roll”. Guess the cops should apologize to the parents and allow the kid to leave without further action after that compelling argument.
Perception is reality in this county, the County says that, NOT ME. The Sheriff’s Department and I am sure a few others have NO PROBLEM telling you that based on a perception they have, YOU are wrong in how your conducting business.
MOST of those folks talking about the perception they have of you is MOSTLY based on what others have told them.
Go into court and face a REAL ATTORNEY and see how far your perception argument will get you.
Another UGLY perception but one that has some teeth to it, is the $400K Mr.Derry took from SEBA during his campaign.
Is the perception that Mr.Derry MIGHT be beholding to SEBA and Hoops because of that, OR would that be a baseless thought?
AND we have shown that SEBA,Hoops,Ramos go hand in hand. It is what it is.
ACU, I am glad that you understand my primary point of building allies for the cause. Thank you for acknowledging that point of view.
Ok, I’ll bite on your other challenge, but I will probably regret that move. I have not seen Supv Derry comment on Jim’s site. Then again, I do not read every article and comment posted. Jim’s site does not seem to have much original content on it, and there is a little too much duplication of content between the sites for my liking. I do like the fact that both sites tend to harvest articles of interested from multiple sources, which saves me the time to seek this information out. I suspect there is a hit count difference which means more to Admins than average people. Jim’s site has not yet taken on advertisers. I prefer no advertisements with my news. You could probably care less, but something that once bugged me about Jim’s site was that the date/time stamps for articles all seem to refresh to the current date, even when they were posted several days before. Looks like this bug has been resolved. One last item is that Jim’s site does not seem to change its appearance on as frequent of a basis as Sharon’s site. Personally, I prefer the site layout of Jim’s site, but that is just me. I am certain that I did not hit on the topic you are referring to, but it has been a long day and I was never good at 20 questions. Btw, I agree there are attack articles on Jim’s site as well. Both sites are a little too Right Wing for my tastes. I prefer a more balanced & independent perspective. Sharon provides an open forum for candidates, which can provide a somewhat more balanced view of information, but can also be quite annoying. Guess I am just tired of all the mud-slinging that is typical of an election year.
About the many SD issues you stated, ya know, those issues are probably most important to those keeping score. When you are a casual reader of these blogs, and other blogs, you tend to skim over the details. Not that I do not care about the details, but I have found that one person’s facts do not always hold up to the test of time. Don’t take this wrong. I am not stating that your facts about the SD are wrong. I have served on enough jury trials to know that until the evidence is presented in court, it is often difficult to know what opinion to form. In other words, I try to reserve judgment until I have heard both sides of a case. It is rare to hear both sides of a case on a blogpen.
That being said, I have also said that the County is like Peyton Place and that there are some good scripts & story-lines to be told by those with the time and ability to write. I suspect there is money to be made in this arena. Until the reality TV shows of today arrived, I would have only classified this triv of interest to soap followers. Personally, I shy away from soaps and reality shows that attack one another on a regular basis. I get my fill of stress at work without adding tension to it at night.
Observor, I certainly did not mean to twist your words. It may be, that in expressing our separate models of the workings of government, that we are talking past each other.
Thank you Observer, and if Mr.Derry was taking the same approach as you, I think common ground might be reached much quicker.
As to Mr.Erwins website, you are observant for the most part and correct.
Mr.Erwin has concentrated his efforts and commentary other than the post and pasting of other news articles on Ramos and Brown. Mark Uffer,Ruth Stringer, some of the BOS from time to time.
Mr.Erwin has chose not to comment on ANY issues that involve the Sheriff’s Department or the Sheriff’s Union.If he has I must have missed it and I would apologize.
I think if one is concerned about corruption it is an across the board concern, NOT a selective concern.
Just like the concern about selective prosecution, and selective media reporting.
To remain silent about the Sheriff’s Department and it’s Union, well it is becoming rather obvious why that might be.
Mr.Erwin being a former Deputy and Union official knows full well that many of his brothers/sisters who have worn a badge, have been thrown under the bus more than once and his former Union is not representing those in the manner they are entitled too.There is NO EVIDENCE to suggest otherwise.
And to suggest by his reporting that DA Ramos and AG Brown are a much greater problem in comparison to the other, is nothing but a joke.
So by being selective about what one puts on their website, but is concerned about selective prosecutions and selective media slanting the facts is nothing but a hypocrisy when looked at.
So is there another political agenda taking place, it would appear so at this time. What is that agenda, don’t piss off SEBA or SBSD Management, and hopefully they will support us when the time comes.
And who doesn’t want to piss off the Union or SBSD, Mr.Derry. Who is Mr.Derry’s pal, Jim Erwin.NOTHING wrong with that.
But it makes me sick to my stomach that Erwin is giving Michael Eagleson SEBA rep a pass. A former friend and co-worker who threw Erwin under the bus with opinionated testimony before the Grand Jury. NOT incriminating testimony to my knowledge, just testimony that would put Eagleson in a good light or protect his butt with someone. And Erwin gives this asshole a pass. But hammers the hell out of Ramos.
Why, it now appears just to keep in graces for potential future support.
POLITICS, sickening!!!!
Thank you for the discourse Observer, your points are duly noted. I will have nothing else to say on this thread unless someone decides to throw a scud my way, then I will re-consider.